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Shipibo Ayahuasca Shaman, Benjamin Ochavano Interviewed in the Amazon Rainforest in Peru

Conversation with Benjamín Ochavano, Peru 2002

Howard G Charing & Peter Cloudsley interviewed Shipibo Ayahuasca Shaman Benjamin Ochavano in the Amazon Rainforest of Peru, who is in his mid-seventies to discuss how Ayahuasca can help those Westerners who seek personal growth and who have embarked on the great journey of self-discovery and exploration.

The uses of powerful hallucinogenic plants such as Ayahuasca have been developed by indigenous peoples and early civilizations for thousands of years, and their effects are highly dependent on the context of the ceremony, the chants and the essential personality of the shaman, all of which can . varies with surprising results.

Various urban uses have appeared recently and some of these are spreading, while some traditional shamans are traveling the world, thus Ayahuasca is gaining recognition in Western civilization. But what really is the potential of these ancestral plants, and how can we get the most out of them?

I first started taking ayahuasca at the age of 10, with my father, who was also a shaman. When I was 15, he took me into the bush to do plant diets, no one would see us for a whole year, we had no contact with women, nothing. We lived in a simple tambo sleeping on leaves with only a sheet over us. We will diet plants: ayauma, puchatekicaspi, pucarobona, huairacaspi, verenaquu.

I would take each plant for 2 months before moving on to the next, a whole year without women! The only fish allowed is boquichico – vegetarian fish and mashed plantains made into a thick drink called pururuco in Shipibo, or chapo without sugar.

Then I had about a year of rest before going again with my uncle, Jose Sánchez, for another year and 7 months of diet on the little Rio Pisqui. He taught me a lot and gave me chonta, cascabel, hergon, nacanaca, cayucayu. He was a chonter, a type of shaman who works with darts (in the spirit world) – so called because real darts and arrows for hunting are made from the black split bamboo called chonta. Khonter can send darts with positive effects such as knowledge and power as well, and he knows how to suck up and remove poisonous darts that have caused disease or evil spells.

To finish he gave me chullachaqui caspi. Then I started living with my wife and working as a curandero in Juancito on the Ucayali. Then I went to Pucallpa where I still live some time when I am not in my community of Paoyhan, where my Ani Sheati project is.

The most important plant master is Ayauma chullachaqui. Then Pucalo punishment (Quechua) the bark of a tree that grows up to 40 or 50 meters. This is one of many plants that is consumed along with tobacco and is so strong that you only need to take it twice. It requires a diet of 6 months. You drink it in the morning, then lie down, you’re in an altered state for a whole day afterwards.

Another plant is Catahua, whose resin is cooked with tobacco. You must be sure that no one will see you while you are taking it. It puts you into a sleep of powerful dreams.

Ajosquiro is from a tree that grows up to 20 m, with a penetrating aroma like garlic. It gives you mental strength, it is very healing and makes you strong. It takes away lazy feelings, gives you courage and self-esteem, but can be used to explore the negative side as well as the positive. You may be alone in the desert, but you may feel in the company of many. It puts you in the psycho-magical world that we inherited from our ancestors, the great Morays (=shamans in Shipibo), so that you can gain knowledge about how to heal with plants.

The word “shaman” is recent in Amazonia, (coming from Asia through the western world in the last 10-20 years). My father was known as moraya or banco, or in Spanish curandero. A curandero could specialize in being a good honter or a shitaner who does harm to people.

Virgilio Salvan, now dead, now dead, presented me with a plant that he said was better than any other plant – Palo Borrador, maestro de todos los palos (master of all plants). You smoke it in a pipe for 8 days, blowing the smoke over your body. On the eighth day, a man appears, as real as we are, a Shipman. He was a chaycuni – an enchanted being in traditional dress… a kushma, or woven tunic, a chaquira necklace etc, and he said to me ‘Benjamin, why did you smoke my tree?’

‘Because I want to learn’ I said. “Since I was little I wanted to be Moraya”

“You have to diet and smoke my tree for 3 months, no more” he said. ‘And you can eat whatever fish you like… it doesn’t matter’ … and he listed all the fish I could eat. ‘But you must not sleep with any woman but your wife’ he said. And I followed this advice until today.

Three nights later, sounds were heard from under the ground and great holes opened and the wind blew. Then everyone, the whole family started flying. And from that day on, I was fine.

Today I am still fasting on Sunday.

What do you think about Westerners coming to take plants in the Amazon?

It is good that they come to learn, that we share and that there is an exchange. This is what I would like to do in my community of Paoyhan. But the Ecuadorians stole our outboard motor.

How could the plants of the Amazon help the people of the West?

It can open the mind so we can find ways to help each other. It can help them find more self-realization in life. If a person is very shy for example it can help to warm their hearts, give them strength and courage.

You have a different system in your countries, when we travel there we feel underestimated just like when you come here you have to get used to being here. When we get to know each other and become like brothers, solutions emerge. To get rid of vices and drug addictions, for example, there are plants that can easily heal people.

Paine of money is a thick tree that I used to cure two foreign women of AIDS. The name means “monkey’s penis”. I saw in my ayahuasca vision that they were sick and diagnosed them as having AIDS. I boiled the bark of the tree and made 6 bottles which they took every day until it was finished. They also had to go on a diet. No fish with teeth, salt, fruit or butter. The fish with teeth eat the plant, so it cannot penetrate into the body. After that you get so hot that steam comes out of the body. There is no AIDS in the jungle, only a few cases in the town of Pucullpa.

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